PA: New Law Would Allow Pro-gun Groups to Sue Municipalities

[wileyCoyote]

..let the butthurt flow!



Officials irked about state bill that could eliminate local gun laws

[SMWS6TA]

Reading the article, I agree with the reporting of lost/stolen firearms.

[Zinergy]

So what is the point the NRA and other lobby groups are trying to make in PA? Who wouldn't report their firearm as lost or stolen? First of all they are worth money and your insurance can sometimes cover the cost. Second if you bought the gun through a dealer the cops will be knocking on your door if they find it in a crime. Third if you bought the gun private sale and the police do someday find it they will have no idea as to who to return it to if you don't report it. This is just a case of starting an argument for the sake of starting an argument.

This bill however goes far past lost/stolen guns. It does open the door for lawsuits on many other topics as well. Is this really what we want? Private lobbying groups suing local governments on any basis they see fit? Eitherway the tax payer pays.... win or lose.

[SMWS6TA]

I think they (PA the state) are wanting the cities/municipalities to get in line with what the state says and not make up their own bans. Kinda like what we had here a few years ago. State said open carry legal while a county/city could ban. AL made it official state trumps county/city, etc.

I think they author was just trying to twist it into saying the NRA was against reporting stolen arms laws. NRA doesn't and wouldn't go after something like that.

[Zinergy]

I think you give the NRA far too much credit. They will go after any and all legislation that has to do with guns and a level of government. The article did quote a NRA official.

John Hohenwater, the NRA's Pennsylvania lobbyist, said his group has no lawsuits prepared to file, but issued a clear warning to municipalities.

"We hope towns will do the right thing and get these laws off the books, so we don't have to litigate," he said.

Definately leaving the door open for it.

[wileyCoyote]

...this is basically teeth to a firearms preemption law... towns/cities run by anti-gun leftists tend to flaunt these laws by keeping their own "firearm ordinances", which are oftentimes onerous...

we've seen this kind of thing in OH, we have a preemption law, and individuals/groups can bring lawsuits against the renegade towns/cities, ...it has worked great here!

..as for the "lost/stolen" thing, ..well, consider that these are oftentimes onerous, burdening the gunowner by requiring they report XYZ w/in some amount of time (24, 48, 72 hrs), ...again it's more laws, ...more "traps" for the unsuspecting gunowner... zinergy, i'm a bit surprised you wouldn't be more in favor of eradicating such laws...

[Zinergy]

I am not against all firearms legislation. We live in a huge society with many different people and factors that the founders could never have known about. I still believe strongly in our rights to own firearms as well as the others but to be against any and all regulation is ignorant and that is how the NRA often comes off. I really just don't like laws that open floodgates for potential future abuse. Have a problem with the laws???? Go through the proper process of putting politicians in place who will correct them.

[wileyCoyote]

I am not against all firearms legislation. We live in a huge society with many different people and factors that the founders could never have known about. I still believe strongly in our rights to own firearms as well as the others but to be against any and all regulation is ignorant and that is how the NRA often comes off. I really just don't like laws that open floodgates for potential future abuse. Have a problem with the laws???? Go through the proper process of putting politicians in place who will correct them.

the law is firearms preemption, and all this does is give it teeth, so that the renegade towns/cities have "incentive" to actually comply w/ the state law, which means repealing their ordinances that violate it...

[Zinergy]

the law is firearms preemption, and all this does is give it teeth, so that the renegade towns/cities have "incentive" to actually comply w/ the state law, which means repealing their ordinances that violate it...

You are acting like ordinances are some illegal law violating pieces of legislation..... they aren't. The exact definition of an ordinance is a law created by a local municipality. This is part of our structure of government. Its a two way street. This is just a case of a local government creating a law that you don't like and therefore you are for these private groups suing them. Wait until it backfires and a local law you agree with comes under fire by other private groups. Then you won't be so supportive.

[wileyCoyote]

You are acting like ordinances are some illegal law violating pieces of legislation..... they aren't. The exact definition of an ordinance is a law created by a local municipality. This is part of our structure of government. Its a two way street. This is just a case of a local government creating a law that you don't like and therefore you are for these private groups suing them. Wait until it backfires and a local law you agree with comes under fire by other private groups. Then you won't be so supportive.

zinergy, do you know what a "firearms preemption" law is?... we've had a few issues here in OH (we do have a statewide firearms preemption -- does not allow local municipalities to enact stricter gun controls, or to ban carry, than state law) -- a GOOD thing, ..otherwise you get a patchwork of fiefdoms that would prevent you from traveling through you state w/out breaking laws w/out knowing it... in OH, every once in a while a fiefdom has an old ordinance (ones that are unconstitional, violate preemption) and they'll prosecute someone and put them through hell - BUT, because our preemption law has teeth, the wrongfully accused have financial recourse, ...this has also been used to preemptively get fiefdoms to change their local ordinances (kicking and screaming of course), to comply w/ the preemption law!!! ...like I said, we've done it right here, ...a GOOD THING for you to RTKBA in-state w/out falling into a legal boobytrap w/ serious ramifications...

[theorangeguy]

zinergy, do you know what a "firearms preemption" law is?... we've had a few issues here in OH (we do have a statewide firearms preemption -- does not allow local municipalities to enact stricter gun controls, or to ban carry, than state law) -- a GOOD thing, ..otherwise you get a patchwork of fiefdoms that would prevent you from traveling through you state w/out breaking laws w/out knowing it... in OH, every once in a while a fiefdom has an old ordinance (ones that are unconstitional, violate preemption) and they'll prosecute someone and put them through hell - BUT, because our preemption law has teeth, the wrongfully accused have financial recourse, ...this has also been used to preemptively get fiefdoms to change their local ordinances (kicking and screaming of course), to comply w/ the preemption law!!! ...like I said, we've done it right here, ...a GOOD THING for you to RTKBA in-state w/out falling into a legal boobytrap w/ serious ramifications...

This is why im glad I dont live in the north...and when I say north I mean not above the mason dixon line...

[Zinergy]

This is why im glad I dont live in the north...and when I say north I mean not above the mason dixon line...

What does that have to do with anything? To me it seems to be the coasts you need to stay away from. NY, NJ, CT, MA and then on west coast you got CA. The midwest is pretty good usually on firearms legislation...... except for IL. IL is the asshole of the midwest.

[GTP231]

...this is basically teeth to a firearms preemption law... towns/cities run by anti-gun leftists tend to flaunt these laws by keeping their own "firearm ordinances", which are oftentimes onerous...

we've seen this kind of thing in OH, we have a preemption law, and individuals/groups can bring lawsuits against the renegade towns/cities, ...it has worked great here!

..as for the "lost/stolen" thing, ..well, consider that these are oftentimes onerous, burdening the gunowner by requiring they report XYZ w/in some amount of time (24, 48, 72 hrs), ...again it's more laws, ...more "traps" for the unsuspecting gunowner... zinergy, i'm a bit surprised you wouldn't be more in favor of eradicating such laws...

What sane non mouth breathing fire arm owner wouldn't report a missing fire arm within 24 hours of finding out it's missing. I don't understand how that is looked upon as one

[theorangeguy]

What does that have to do with anything? To me it seems to be the coasts you need to stay away from. NY, NJ, CT, MA and then on west coast you got CA. The midwest is pretty good usually on firearms legislation...... except for IL. IL is the asshole of the midwest.

seems that the North has a hard on to control what people can and cant do with the purchase and ownership of guns. Thats what I meant by saying Im glad I dont live up North. I didnt say I was glad I dont live anywhere specific in the North for a reason because not everybody up there is a control freak about this stuff...but the larger areas are without a doubt. I dont think anybody cares in the corn fields between Kentucky and Chicago, but once you get close to Chicago that obviously changes quite a bit...Same for New York City, the closer you get the worse it gets.

[Naaman]

And then there's Arizona

[wileyCoyote]

What sane non mouth breathing fire arm owner wouldn't report a missing fire arm within 24 hours of finding out it's missing. I don't understand how that is looked upon as one

...carpy, ...you don't think we have enough laws or something?...

[2002ssslp]