K&n Or Paper Filter?

**Sarge** · 05-20-2007, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by yellowv

The AEM dryflows are nice. They are actually made by Fram. Do they have one to fit the LS1? If so i would have gotten one instead of the K&N.

Try Amsoil. I run Amsoil on the GTO and AEM on the Dodge R/T.

**yellowv** · 05-20-2007, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Not really...they are made by the same manufacturing company that makes Fram.....two different specs.

Yeah Honeywell. Fram actually has a line of truck and SUV air intakes in which AEM makes all of their piping. In turn Honeywell supplies the dryflows to AEM. When i had my Nissan Titan I had won a Fram Boost intake and it was exactly the same as the AEM intake just painted a different color, with a Fram sticker on it. AEM used to use K&N filters, then they just started making their own copies. Now they are using the dryflows from Honeywell.

**Sarge** · 05-20-2007, 10:00 AM

Hey I think Fram makes great air filters....the oil filters suck donkey balls though.

**rbob93** · 05-20-2007, 10:06 AM

So if we can believe the Amsoil chart in the link Sarge posted, my suspicions that the K&N is inferior to paper in filtration are correct, but I would benefit more by switching to the Amsoil filter.

Been driving only about 40 or so years & I'm still learning new things .......thanks

**Sarge** · 05-20-2007, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by rbob93

So if we can believe the Amsoil chart in the link Sarge posted, my suspicions that the K&N is inferior to paper in filtration are correct, but I would benefit more by switching to the Amsoil filter.

Been driving only about 40 or so years & I'm still learning new things .......thanks

Hell I'm older than you and still havent figured out how girls pee. Yes paper filters better than KN. KN flows better than paper. Trade off is higher flow with more dirt in your engine. The new synthetic filters do a better job of filtration without restricting flow. How do girls pee anyway?

**AKIRA** · 05-20-2007, 10:21 AM

Be precise. You read a site's own test of filtration. You seem to be a skeptic, so I doubt youd stop here.

Even blowing air through a K&N vs. a brand new paper filter shows a difference. Try it.

As far as Sarge's filters go, Ill stay out of it cuz I havent had any practice with them.

**Sarge** · 05-20-2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Be precise. You read a site's own test of filtration. You seem to be a skeptic, so I doubt youd stop here.

Even blowing air through a K&N vs. a brand new paper filter shows a difference. Try it.

As far as Sarge's filters go, Ill stay out of it cuz I havent had any practice with them.

Nah...I go by Southwest Researchs test. They could give a shit less about marketing or hype.
http://www.swri.edu/3pubs/brochure/d...p/vehicomp.htm

Knock yourself out.................good baseline start.........
http://www.parker.com/racor/pdf/7480G/pdf/Section09.pdf

**02z28ls1** · 05-20-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

You got it backwards

Reread the test again -the K+N retained more dust and outflowed the others. The only other differences are only 1-2% differences which could be interpreted as inconsequential. I quote-"dust capacity as a function of the amount of dust retained by the elements". The element -K+N filter- held in it's filter more dust than the others. That means it filtered better. Refer to Figure 2 for a graph showing amount of dust retained- the K+N retained more dust by a wide margin. That means it filtered and held more fine dust particles. While outflowing or at least matching the performance of the others. Again I would urge you to reread the test results. I'm just quoting what it says.

**AKIRA** · 05-20-2007, 01:10 PM

Ive never really doubted paper's power. I doubt the chance of a K&N allowing enough dirt to get into an engine to fuck it up.

As far as flow goes, Yeah Id say K&N is better than paper.

Then Sarge came in with his filters and now its a FREE FOR ALL!

**02z28ls1** · 05-20-2007, 01:43 PM

I realize it's difficult to read the test results there but what they are doing is flowing fine dust particles through the 'elements' (the filters) and then weighing them to see how much dust weight they pick up. The one filter is being given about half the airflow rate than the other 2 for some reason(it doesn't explain why) and then they are evaluated. The K+N was superior to the 'Air raid' filter and both were way out in from of the 'Ingen Tech' (is that a control filter type or something?) filter.
As you can see I have trouble taking anyone's word for stuff and will read the information and try to understand it for myself. It gives me a headache and a serious time management problem -but I feel it necessary to satisfy my own curiousity.
If anyone has any other test results that would shed more light on this I will be happy to waste more time reading them too. Before this I was under the impression that the K+N would allow more dust to flow through it -but these results seem to refute that.

**stanger88** · 05-20-2007, 01:49 PM

http://www.aempower.com/files/dryflo...iraid9inch.pdf

EDIT: that just shows that the K&N takes longer to obstruct.

**slims00ls1z28** · 05-20-2007, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

MY engine got hydrolocked from a puddle. My engine is unique statistically as others have ran the FTRA threw oceans (I did too before this one time) and were fine.

Na I hydrolocked mine before too with the Free Ram Air. Now I just avoid puddles! I got K&N and with the amount of dirt that the Free Ram air puts on the filter I'm glad I got it. I have to clean it at least once a month. With paper I'd be buying them regularly.

**BULLET_WS6** · 05-20-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28

Na I hydrolocked mine before too with the Free Ram Air. Now I just avoid puddles! I got K&N and with the amount of dirt that the Free Ram air puts on the filter I'm glad I got it. I have to clean it at least once a month. With paper I'd be buying them regularly.

man, you have to clean that many times? do you live on a dirt road or something?

**yellowv** · 05-20-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28

Na I hydrolocked mine before too with the Free Ram Air. Now I just avoid puddles! I got K&N and with the amount of dirt that the Free Ram air puts on the filter I'm glad I got it. I have to clean it at least once a month. With paper I'd be buying them regularly.

Unless you live in the middle of the desert you should not be cleaning your filter that often. You can over clean them. Your going to ruin it.

**02z28ls1** · 05-20-2007, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by stanger88

http://www.aempower.com/files/dryflo...iraid9inch.pdf

EDIT: that just shows that the K&N takes longer to obstruct.

Agreed that alot of people that I've read posts from are over cleaning these things. Leave them alone and find something else to maintain, you should be cleaning K+N type filters every 50,000 miles or so unless you are running the Baja 1000.

Reread the test results in figure 2. It is retaining ALOT more dust before becoming obstructed. That means it is stopping alot more dust while flowing better dirty than the other.

**Sarge** · 05-20-2007, 03:25 PM

Guys!!!! Your missing the point altogether.
It isn't about how much it is "holding" it is about how small of particles are stopped at the filter. Small particles that do not get caught are like sandpaper in your engine.
You can all have a brand new filter...and the one letting the small particles through is gonna have an engine that isn't going to last as long as the others nor is it going to have the performance the others have due crap for compression due cylinder walls sanded down due these small particles getting past his/her filter.
Now if somebody tells me I have to let a cup full of sandpaper through my filter before it starts to filter I'm gonna kick em in the balls.
Now obviously we cannot have a filter filter out everything....then we would not be getting any airflow....but the filter that flows the best and filters down to the smallest particles RIGHT OFF THE BAT is the filter you are after.
Couple of you knuckleheads are gonna have to stay after and clean the chalkboard....I swear...you kids....cant see the forest for the trees....but y'all are still pretty good kids

**AKIRA** · 05-20-2007, 03:41 PM

!

**AKIRA** · 05-20-2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by stanger88

http://www.aempower.com/files/dryflo...iraid9inch.pdf

EDIT: that just shows that the K&N takes longer to obstruct.

Its a biased site.

Bottom line, at least to me, I have a Holley Powershot. If and when it goes bad, Ill think of other filters, until then, I wont live in fear.

**stanger88** · 05-20-2007, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by 02z28ls1

Agreed that alot of people that I've read posts from are over cleaning these things. Leave them alone and find something else to maintain, you should be cleaning K+N type filters every 50,000 miles or so unless you are running the Baja 1000.

Reread the test results in figure 2. It is retaining ALOT more dust before becoming obstructed. That means it is stopping alot more dust while flowing better dirty than the other.

INcorrect. It simply means that it flows better given the amount of dust it has trapped in it. It means nothing in relation to which filters MORE contaminants from the intake charge.

**stanger88** · 05-20-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Guys!!!! Your missing the point altogether.
It isn't about how much it is "holding" it is about how small of particles are stopped at the filter. Small particles that do not get caught are like sandpaper in your engine.
You can all have a brand new filter...and the one letting the small particles through is gonna have an engine that isn't going to last as long as the others nor is it going to have the performance the others have due crap for compression due cylinder walls sanded down due these small particles getting past his/her filter.
Now if somebody tells me I have to let a cup full of sandpaper through my filter before it starts to filter I'm gonna kick em in the balls.
Now obviously we cannot have a filter filter out everything....then we would not be getting any airflow....but the filter that flows the best and filters down to the smallest particles RIGHT OFF THE BAT is the filter you are after.
Couple of you knuckleheads are gonna have to stay after and clean the chalkboard....I swear...you kids....cant see the forest for the trees....but y'all are still pretty good kids

I have a friend who ran a turbo civic for almost 2 years without a filter. It ran the same mid 11's @ 126 when he sold it as when he got it. I doubt K&N vs Paper will matter much. Even oil analysis results from Blackstone don't show increased silica between types of air filters.