Anybody tweak your truck with HPtuners?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-07-2011, 06:11 PM

That's cool. Those are all things I do, that mainly affect drivability. Some of it is personal preferences. Tweaking is endless. I started with small stuff. I've had it for 5 years now I think?? And I still don't know how to use some of it. Orion helped me setup the wideband/AFR tuning to work with each other, and that was just a few months ago. Before that I was using the wideband and HPtuners as seperate pieces. It worked, but was more time consuming.

I personally prefer to run 0 torque management mainly because I want all the engine has to offer. I don't care for the computer pulling timing unless it's pinging. So I zero most of that stuff out. 50% is probably a good idea if you are stock and experimenting. I on the other hand don't care much if I break something, then I know it needed improvement

Plus I just don't like the lag between shifts that torque management provides. I like it snappy and rpms immediately climbing through the next gear. Again, that's just personal preference.

Burst Knock is what I was talking about with quick throttle movements. I zero that as well. It pulls timing if you move the throttle quickly. I've found alot of performance improvements just with timing tables and taking alot of those multipliers out of it, including the IAT temp and engine temp multipliers. I get a much more consistent timing table while logging without numbers jumping all over the place.

Actually it sounds like you made quite a few changes for one flash. I think I started with fan settings for my first flash just to see if I did it right

**Cutlass** · 09-07-2011, 06:20 PM

I did catch the timing advance dropped like a rock when I stabbed the throttle when I logged my truck. I was wondering what table to adjust to get rid of that. Now that I look at the description of Burst Knock, it all makes sense. I think I'll adjust that as well. THANKS!!

**Firebirdjones** · 09-07-2011, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cutlass

I did catch the timing advance dropped like a rock when I stabbed the throttle when I logged my truck. I was wondering what table to adjust to get rid of that. Now that I look at the description of Burst Knock, it all makes sense. I think I'll adjust that as well. THANKS!!

You are welcome. It'll help your throttle response and your "get up and go"

**Sweet Chops** · 09-07-2011, 08:42 PM

Just a few things that I have read you will want to get your VE tuned before you start ajusting your timming. I'm sure it is fine for now but before you start tuning your VE tables i would put the timing back to stock.
This is the order I tune.
make trans ajustments
VE tune
Maf calibrate
PE
Spark

**Sweet Chops** · 09-07-2011, 08:56 PM

Cutlass,
I have a few good write-ups on how to tune with lt-st fuel trims (narrowband method). I got them off Performance Trucks dot net in the GM Tuning section. Also if you can find CPIG'S HPTuners Vehicle tuning Guide that is another good one. I can only find it as a download from a site I'm not sure I can trust. I have hard copys of everything I find.

**Cutlass** · 09-08-2011, 03:16 AM

i do have a hard copy of CPIGs guide. I'll have to dig it out and read it over.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-08-2011, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sweet Chops

Just a few things that I have read you will want to get your VE tuned before you start ajusting your timming. I'm sure it is fine for now but before you start tuning your VE tables i would put the timing back to stock.
This is the order I tune.
make trans ajustments
VE tune
Maf calibrate
PE
Spark

I prefer to do it a little differently. I like to get the spark tables in the ballpark and then attack the fueling. Simply because if you attack the fuel tables first,,,then make drastic timing changes from a bone stock timing table,,,,it screws with all the fueling changes you just made. Then you have to go back and touch up the fueling again. I just don't go hog wild with timing changes, then I get the fueling right, and I can go back and do a little touch up work in the timing tables.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-08-2011, 01:33 PM

Cutlass, didn't you buy the Pro version so you can tune it with the wideband?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-08-2011, 04:58 PM

Well I decided to top off the tank today after tossing in the gas mileage changes. I drove 128 miles and it only took 7.7 gallons. That's 16.62 mpg with all city driving, alot of stop and go.

I've been averaging 16 anyway, with the worst being 15.7 mpg (the last tank) and the best being 16.2 to 16.3 or so.

Although 16.62 is the best I've done in the city, it's not enough of a change to know for sure. I got bigger gains on my wifes 4th gen.
I'm thinking I need to go through the fueling tables first, dial in the VE and MAF, then put the mileage tune changes back in and see if there is a difference.

In any event, until then I'll leave it as is and see if there is more improvement on highway mileage. I'm driving down to Queen Creek on Saturday which is a good 2 hour highway trip. I'll leave the gas mileage tune in there and see how the highway mileage is.
The best I've gotten highway before is 19.2 mpg. We'll see if I can top 20 mpg. That's been my goal.

Not bad for a 4,760 lbs. 4x4 blazer shaped like a brick with a 6.0/4L60E and 33" tires

**Cutlass** · 09-08-2011, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Cutlass, didn't you buy the Pro version so you can tune it with the wideband?

Yes I did and I bought a LC1 wideband with it. KySpeed had a smoking good deal running for buying HPtuners and the wideband. But I sold the LM1 to a friend. I think I might borrow that back.
Here's the thing though. Will I gain anything really? I mean the truck is BONE stock. So the VE table and MAF calibration should be good, right?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-09-2011, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Cutlass

Yes I did and I bought a LC1 wideband with it. KySpeed had a smoking good deal running for buying HPtuners and the wideband. But I sold the LM1 to a friend. I think I might borrow that back.
Here's the thing though. Will I gain anything really? I mean the truck is BONE stock. So the VE table and MAF calibration should be good, right?

Well I can tell you what I've found. My 02 SS was bone stock with paper filter and all. It ran a best of 13.70 at 101 mph no matter what I did. My very first mod was to buy HPtuners. Never even turned a wrench on the car. I hooked it up and logged it. I found the right bank fuel trims in the red zone, not sure why. It ran fine with no drivability problems and gas mileage was decent.
I didn't have my wideband working with HPtuner at the time so I started logging the VE tables using the 02 sensors. Funny thing, they were horribly out of whack, but once I got them within + or - 2, suddenly my fuel trims on the right bank were more inline with the left bank, and my throttle response got better.
I continued to tune the MAF using the same method, tweaked the timing tables a bit, and I adjusted my trans pressures. I also had to bump up the 1-2 shift. It was happening at 5600 for some reason. I bumped that to 6,050. The 2-3 shift was happening at 6,000 so I left it as is.

I went back to the track, this time on a hotter day. Car immediately ran 13.40 at 104 mph. I flashed in the stock tune and it dropped to 13.80's,,,lol. I put the tune I had worked on back in the car and continued to run a string of 13.40's, never slower than 13.43. It became deadly consistent and ran great. In better DA I think the car would have dropped another tenth. I later found out I still had the car running rich at WOT too, so I left some on the table.

In any event, since then I've never trusted the stock tune to be "spot on" I believe there is room for improvement in all of them. Especially the truck tunes. I gained a huge seat of the paints feel in my 6.0 after I went through and removed torque management, bumped up the shift points (they were low at 5500) and playing with the main timing tables while removing alot of the multipliers that I feel aren't needed.

Just those changes went from a slug to a truck that now lays rubber. And I haven't even touched the fuel tables. I also believe it accounts for the acceptional gas mileage I'm getting from my 6.0. 16 city and 19 highway. My fathers 2003 6.0 won't do better than 13 no matter what he does. It's stock.
Not to mention you'll find your stock PE tables command an 11.7 AFR which is robbing you of HP. You'll find a huge gain in performance just by dialing in the AFR to something in the 12.7 to 13.0 range.
Since mine is a retro swap in a 72 blazer, I'm also running a real dual 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Mac mufflers, and the air intake is a custom 4" setup with a large cone filter. Just those two things I'm sure have thrown my fuel tables out of whack anyway. I haven't touched the fuel tables so it's also still commanding 11.7 AFR at WOT.
There is still some performance left in mine once I get in there and start logging with the wideband.

**Cutlass** · 09-09-2011, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cutlass

I'm learning a bunch from you guys. Feel free to talk about any tuning stuff you want to. I'm just absorbing it all up.
As for my tuning so far, I started over.
I changed some of the Power Enrichment settings as far as making it come on sooner. I'm hoping that with a little more power enrichment, I can bump up some ign timing.
I'm gonna try out O2 Rich/Lean switch voltage vs Airflow mode modification and see how that works out for me.
I cut the torque Management in half.
Disabled the EGR, zero'd its spark table, and set its codes to 3/no error report
Adjusted the trans Desired shift times
Adjusted the TCC duty cycle

I've just been tinkering with it a little bit here and there. I haven't flash it to the truck yet. Maybe I'll get out there later tonite.

Just got back from tinkering around. I zero'd the Burst Knock v Rpm table (pulls timing when you stab the throttle), further tweaked the PE delays, slightly leaned the PE WOT commanded air/fuel ratio, and massively overhauled the spark timing.
Here's what I did, I zero'd all the spark correction add/subtract tables (ECT, IAT, AFR, etc.). Then I copied the Max Torque Timing table over to the High and Low octance main spark advance. It sounds like the Max Torque Timing table is used by the PCM to calculate/estimate the engine torque output for reference purposes. The PCM will use that estimate to determine torque management and trans shift stuff (amoung other things I suspect)
Anyways I copied that theoretical Max Torque Timing table over the the Main Spark Advance tables. There are gaps in the tables that I smoothed using the "interpolate between" functions. I also had to do that to fill in the bottom half of the spark table (the Max table doesn't go down that far).
Flashed that calibration and its the first time I've really noticed a difference. I can actually power brake burnout and I can feel the truck making more power. I logged a 10 minute drive and there wasn't any spark knock.
I'm no expert and this was just a little experimental tinkering but if anyone want to look at it, let me know. I'll share.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-10-2011, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cutlass

Just got back from tinkering around. I zero'd the Burst Knock v Rpm table (pulls timing when you stab the throttle), further tweaked the PE delays, slightly leaned the PE WOT commanded air/fuel ratio, and massively overhauled the spark timing.
Here's what I did, I zero'd all the spark correction add/subtract tables (ECT, IAT, AFR, etc.). Then I copied the Max Torque Timing table over to the High and Low octance main spark advance. It sounds like the Max Torque Timing table is used by the PCM to calculate/estimate the engine torque output for reference purposes. The PCM will use that estimate to determine torque management and trans shift stuff (amoung other things I suspect)
Anyways I copied that theoretical Max Torque Timing table over the the Main Spark Advance tables. There are gaps in the tables that I smoothed using the "interpolate between" functions. I also had to do that to fill in the bottom half of the spark table (the Max table doesn't go down that far).
Flashed that calibration and its the first time I've really noticed a difference. I can actually power brake burnout and I can feel the truck making more power. I logged a 10 minute drive and there wasn't any spark knock.
I'm no expert and this was just a little experimental tinkering but if anyone want to look at it, let me know. I'll share.

That sounds interesting Cutlass. I don't remember seeing a "max torque timing table" so I'm sure I haven't messed with that. I guess I need to get with you and find that in my tune and see what I have.

On a side note I drove down to Phoenix today hopefull for an accurate highway mileage check. Unfortunately I got about 60 miles and the highway was shut down, I had to take backroads for the remainder of the drive, about another 50 miles. Then pulled in to top it off.
I was thinking mileage would be horrible with all the city driving, as I usually get something in the 16's all city, so I was expecting maybe 17 or so with this 50/50 mix of driving. I was surprised to see 19.08 mpg on that tank. I'm certain if the entire drive would have been highway it might have topped 20 mpg. So at this point I'm thinking the gas mileage tricks in the tune are helping mine just a bit. There is still some tweaking to do though.

Hey Cutlass, fill me in more on this torque timing table please.....

**Cutlass** · 09-11-2011, 12:47 PM

You don't want to modify the Max Torque Timing table according to the description, I just copied it over and filled in the missing boxes. Its in Engine>Spark Control>Spark Advance. Here's a pic:

**Firebirdjones** · 09-11-2011, 02:09 PM

Man I wish I knew how to post that stuff in here.

The numbers in that max timing table look eerily similar to the timing tables I put in my high octane table, but I came up with it off the top of my head based off of what I've used on our other 4th gens.

I wonder what that max timing table is doing in there, and how or what it affects in the main table... In PE does it use this table instead?

I'll bust out the laptop right now and have a look at mine. You peaked my interest. I don't remember seeing this in the 4th gen tunes at all.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-11-2011, 03:09 PM

Just looked at mine Cutlass, just can't post it.

My timing table for this "torque" thing is a bit more aggressive than what you have posted. Just to give you an idea.

The top row of g/cyl has 58 to 60 accross there where as your's tames down to 46 as it goes accross.
The bottom row of g/cyl on mine ramps up to 26 pretty quick and stays there while yours takes a little longer and stops at 24.

Not sure why that is. I haven't touched mine and quite honestly I don't really know it's function or if it's even operable since I'm pretty sure I've eliminiated 100% of all the torque management tables and/or multipliers.

**Cutlass** · 09-11-2011, 05:16 PM

Remember now, mine is a 5.3 and yours is a 6.0. So there is bound to be a differences. I do have a 6.0 calibration off my friends 6.0 1500HD. I looked at it and it sounds like its pretty much the same as you describe yours.

Here's a definition of the table I found on HPtuners' forum.

The max torque timing table is used by the ECM to determine the amount of torque the engine is making. The torque calculations are usually referenced to a "Mean Best Timing" table.

So if your engine is running at 22deg spark and the MBT table says 24deg it uses this 2deg difference to offset the calculated torque values. Note that the MBT is often a theoretical number.

There's really no need to modify this table, we only ever really added it for the LS1 V8 engines for infomation and that got carried over to the V6 during that development.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-11-2011, 07:07 PM

Wow, that's more explanation than I get on my HPtuner. I get about 2 sentences and it's cut off. I've never been able to read the entire description of anything.
How did you read yours??

**Sweet Chops** · 09-12-2011, 02:18 PM

Well After my 375 mile round trip 80% interstate 72mph. I averaged 18.4. That was with the bed of my truck full and pulling a 12' boat.
I think I'm happy. Now I want to see what I can get with the truck empty.

**Sweet Chops** · 09-12-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Wow, that's more explanation than I get on my HPtuner. I get about 2 sentences and it's cut off. I've never been able to read the entire description of anything.
How did you read yours??

It looks like he got that off the forum. I don't get much of a explanation on my HPTuner also.