why do i feel guilty falling for the new camaro?

**jknelms** · 06-29-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Then you must not do any agressive driving that requires braking lol. My 2000 t/a didnt have good enough brakes, neither did my legacy or my 2001 cbr600f4i, nether did my supra. So i upgraded them all. All my vehicles have atleast rotors and pads upgraded some have more than that.

also to mention, it's much easier and takes less time to change disk brake pads over drum brake pads.

**Zinergy** · 06-29-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by jknelms

also to mention, it's much easier and takes less time to change disk brake pads over drum brake pads.

agreed. I guess drums are ok if you drive around town slow all the time. But if you drag race, street race, road race, drift race or just like to have fun getting on the gas tehn IMO good brakes are a must. Even on my DD i upgrade the brakes and tires to help avoid accidents.

**johno** · 06-29-2009, 02:24 PM

side by side hands down the ws6 is still the bad ass.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-29-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

agreed. I guess drums are ok if you drive around town slow all the time. But if you drag race, street race, road race, drift race or just like to have fun getting on the gas tehn IMO good brakes are a must. Even on my DD i upgrade the brakes and tires to help avoid accidents.

I actually drag race one of the cars with the 4 wheel drums. Never really had any issues. With 4.56 gears the motor does a pretty good job slowing it down. No need to take the first turn off either

They actually do well in a panic stop, they are good for at least 1-2 high speed stops in a row,,,,and will lock up all 4 if you try. It's when they get hot after a couple of hard repeated stops you have to worry, but I've never found more than one stop necessary in a given amount of time,,,

They have some advantages as well. They are generally lighter than a typical disc brake setup, and have less unsprung weight as a result.
They also have less drag while the car is in motion which equals better MPG and faster ET's at the track. And for those that hate brake dust,,,well you just don't get any with drum brakes

You can do other things to upgrade them for more stopping power. On mine I installed station wagon wheel cylinders on all four corners. They have a larger bore diameter for more pressure. There are some awsome shoes on the market now, and switching to aluminum drums not only helps to disipate the heat, but you have less unsprung weight as well. GM used aluminum drums throughout the mid to late 80's on alot of the G-bodies, and it's a great upgrade.

Check out Musclecarbrakes.com They sell all the upgrades for drums and have some very interesting and usefull info on there. They aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-29-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Then you must not do any agressive driving that requires braking lol. My 2000 t/a didnt have good enough brakes, neither did my legacy or my 2001 cbr600f4i, nether did my supra. So i upgraded them all. All my vehicles have atleast rotors and pads upgraded some have more than that.

Read above.

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Read above.

Thats fine and dandy, but i know guys who do all types of racing and they upgrade all there cars to disc, yes even there drag cars. Its better end of story. You can say what you want but noone in the past 20 years has tried to argue that drum brakes are better because they simply arent. Im glad you like yours and dont feel a need for anything better but for almost everyone else in the performance world they arent enough.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2009, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Thats fine and dandy, but i know guys who do all types of racing and they upgrade all there cars to disc, yes even there drag cars. Its better end of story. You can say what you want but noone in the past 20 years has tried to argue that drum brakes are better because they simply arent. Im glad you like yours and dont feel a need for anything better but for almost everyone else in the performance world they arent enough.

Lets not twist this around now,,,,I never said they were better. I just said they aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and they do have some advantages. I just hope the facts and info I posted helped to open peoples eyes a bit and realize that.

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Lets not twist this around now,,,,I never said they were better. I just said they aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and they do have some advantages. I just hope the facts and info I posted helped to open peoples eyes a bit and realize that.

I like the non brake dust part but thats about it. Maintanence is worse, performance is worse, the look is worse. But to each his own

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2009, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

I like the non brake dust part but thats about it. Maintanence is worse, performance is worse, the look is worse. But to each his own

Performance??? is only worse in some areas. I've installed the musclecarbrake setup on several customer cars and have had great results. The shoes they sell are great, have them on the back of my chevelle and firebird. The oversize wheel cylinders they sell are the same thing I mentioned earlier,,,stationwagon parts,,,and you can get those at any local parts store and save some coin. Just that alone makes a noticable improvement.

Maintainance???? I don't see any difference there, they adjust themselves, I've never had them squeak, (an annoying factor on disc brakes). They just don't need attention from my experience unless you've done something wrong on the install.

Looks??? That's only a matter of opinion and doesn't have any bearing on the facts. Most all factory wheels from that era you can't even see through anyway,,,,so it's a non issue

But hey if it makes ya feel better so be it. I'm not knocking disc brakes, they are a wonderfull thing. Just alot of people are not schooled on drums, especially the youngins here that were born into the disc brake world. They can be made to work admirably.

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Performance??? is only worse in some areas. I've installed the musclecarbrake setup on several customer cars and have had great results. The shoes they sell are great, have them on the back of my chevelle and firebird. The oversize wheel cylinders they sell are the same thing I mentioned earlier,,,stationwagon parts,,,and you can get those at any local parts store and save some coin. Just that alone makes a noticable improvement.

Maintainance???? I don't see any difference there, they adjust themselves, I've never had them squeak, (an annoying factor on disc brakes). They just don't need attention from my experience unless you've done something wrong on the install.

Looks??? That's only a matter of opinion and doesn't have any bearing on the facts. Most all factory wheels from that era you can't even see through anyway,,,,so it's a non issue

But hey if it makes ya feel better so be it. I'm not knocking disc brakes, they are a wonderfull thing. Just alot of people are not schooled on drums, especially the youngins here that were born into the disc brake world. They can be made to work admirably.

They arent schooled on it because its old tech that almost noone uses. Almost no cars are made with drums hell most trucks arent either. You spend time and money upgradeing your drums when you could just swap over to disc setup and have better stopping power. Drums are dieing because people want cars that can do all things well, not just accel anymore and discs are obviously better for stopping.

**dklowrider** · 06-30-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

They arent schooled on it because its old tech that almost noone uses. Almost no cars are made with drums hell most trucks arent either. You spend time and money upgradeing your drums when you could just swap over to disc setup and have better stopping power. Drums are dieing because people want cars that can do all things well, not just accel anymore and discs are obviously better for stopping.

i read both sides of this and it just leaves me with one question. whats your point after personal opinions have been expressed?

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by dklowrider

i read both sides of this and it just leaves me with one question. whats your point after personal opinions have been expressed?

Because its not personal opinion, drums are gone because the world found a better way to make there cars stop.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2009, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

They arent schooled on it because its old tech that almost noone uses. Almost no cars are made with drums hell most trucks arent either. You spend time and money upgradeing your drums when you could just swap over to disc setup and have better stopping power. Drums are dieing because people want cars that can do all things well, not just accel anymore and discs are obviously better for stopping.

Wow, I hope you are not that single minded about everything

Hell I like disc brakes, I'm not knockin' em'. I can understand people wanting to upgrade, that's what started the whole pro-touring thing.
But,,,,most collectors like myself keep the cars as is for collectable reasons. It's not that we can't upgrade to disc,,,,we just choose not to on certain cars.
It's not a matter of which one is better than the other, there is just much more to it than that for some of us.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Because its not personal opinion, drums are gone because the world found a better way to make there cars stop.

Actually,,,,you have expressed alot of personal opinion about the subject.
I on the other hand have only mentioned facts with pros and cons about both sides. I can only hope that it opens the eyes a bit.

No body here is saying drums are better, I think disc brakes are great too.

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Wow, I hope you are not that single minded about everything

Hell I like disc brakes, I'm not knockin' em'. I can understand people wanting to upgrade, that's what started the whole pro-touring thing.
But,,,,most collectors like myself keep the cars as is for collectable reasons. It's not that we can't upgrade to disc,,,,we just choose not to on certain cars.
It's not a matter of which one is better than the other, there is just much more to it than that for some of us.

I understand the guys who wanna keep everything orig, hell i have 4 uncles with orig cars from the late 60s/70s. But the moment you upgrade/change 1 thing on the car its not orig anymore and its pointless to leave the stock drum brakes if your changing it in anyway and have the means to upgrade.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

I understand the guys who wanna keep everything orig, hell i have 4 uncles with orig cars from the late 60s/70s. But the moment you upgrade/change 1 thing on the car its not orig anymore and its pointless to leave the stock drum brakes if your changing it in anyway.

You can't see what I've got hiding behind the drums

**Zinergy** · 06-30-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Actually,,,,you have expressed alot of personal opinion about the subject.
I on the other hand have only mentioned facts with pros and cons about both sides. I can only hope that it opens the eyes a bit.

No body here is saying drums are better, I think disc brakes are great too.

What was my personal opinion? The fact that i like the way rotors and calieprs look through rims? Thats about it everything else was i need my cars to stop better than that and you obviously dont so those are both personal opinions.

**Pirate BlackJack Jay** · 06-30-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mustang Killa

The idea of my bird being the last I like, when I first heard of and saw the new camaro it did do anything for me...but I think the fresh 18yr old nailed it..the idea of having a virgin car lol...I still have such a sense of loyalty to my car :/

dont worry... you'll end up like me... wanting one so bad.. then realizing its not worth the payments when you can mod the car you have.... i REALLY wanted one! but now.. i just admire them... i couldnt handle the payments.... well atleast for the Camaro i want! RS/2SS.. Sun roof.. ect... haha

**anniversary30** · 06-30-2009, 02:28 PM

Dooon't doooo it!!!!! you'll be sorry!!!!

**MNZ28** · 07-03-2009, 11:35 PM

I know I am gonna get bashed for this but I hate the new camaro. So GM who could have done something new in 2003 decided fuck it just stop. Ford was on the ball and actually came up with a new idea, WOW and it sold like no tomorrow. I guess what I m trying to get at is they could have done any piece of shit and put the name camaro on it and someone would be like oh thats cool. The car looks ok from some angles but the back is horrible and when I seen it in person thought the back was even worse. Dont get me wrong I loved seeing a new camaro out but they could have done so much more. To those who really like it good for you but it just doesnt seem like what I expected. I will never fall in love with it like I have third gens and then ls1 fourth gens. Sorry for the ramble.