Strut Tower Brace

[djvaly]

I would never cage a daily driver.

true, that's why when it becomes in 11s I cage it and make it track/weekend car.

[Joshua.Grooms]

Im not sure if i will cage mine, not like a 12 point or anything, but maybe 6 to 8 pt. Ill stick to normal add-ons. i really considering it for my 87 TA. Can't say yet though.
Hey, ill go for the STB, its one of the cheapest bolt ons if you think about it

[SiggyZ]

One thing you will notice (as I do with mine) once you install a STB, the ride will get a bit more rough as the front end will feel more of the pavement.

[djvaly]

STB is good at cornering, much less body roll and no more dashboard rattling..
i got the 3 point brace bar.

[Fastcar]

A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.

[SiggyZ]

Well said!

A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.

[bevenue]

A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.

GREAT EXAMPLE!

[jigger1166]

A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.

Very well said.

[pocheasy]

Im lovin it.

I out turned a cobra in an "S" curve at 75mph. I looked behind me and he almost went into the bushes.

dont you think that had more to do with your tires?...

I use the 3 point brace. I like the idea of the triangulation support it (supposedly) offers.

now ive heard that the 3pt stb's can lead to cracked windshields.. anyone expierence this?

[bluefields88]

I don't know about the STB's cracking windshields, but I have had a cracked windshield before, and let me say that you want to avoid it! they don't make the windshields as good as they did stock. the first replacement I had had a huge wave in it that made your eyes cross whenver you drove, and made my friends sick just riding shotgun. the window guy came back with another, but it had a huge wave in it too, so he had to come back again. the third one is alright, but still not as good as the original. I say if anyone has gotten a cracked windshield from a 3 point, don't get one. I'd rather have a less stiff ride than have to deal with crappy windshields.

[AKIRA]

Hmph. Ive had my winshield replaced many times via fucked hoods and violence and they all look the same.

[Eugenio_SS]

analogy is good for strenght only... ie the same can be said about a cage in the car, yet it doesn absolutely nothing to improve handling or make the car faster in any scenario around any track. Following the analogy, putting a full-cage will improve the car handling... I saw try to prove that... the car is safer and more rigid... but handling hasn't changed.

Let's say argumentatively that it did change something in the front rigidity affecting handling... then it would affect the f/r balance for understeer/oversteer, having the same effect as rollbars, which isn't the case.
If that was true, the car would tend to understeer more w/ the STB vs non-STB... which isn't the case either.

Some have tried, including myself, to make several tests around different tracks w/ vs w/out STB and times are identical... and the handling characteristics of the car don't change, nor the balance.

And for the styrofoam cup... put it on the side... does the styrofoam roll any better w/ or w/out the added support ?

[Fastcar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar

http://www.240edge.com/performance/tuning-bars.html

http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm An STB doesn't affect the F/R over/understeer balance directly like a swaybar: obviously a huge enough swaybar would make your car corner almost completely flat - at the loss of any suspension compliance! Don't hit a bump or pothole with that suspension. The STB helps keep the front suspension components in the proper relationship to each other so your steering angles don't change as much when the chassis flexes randomly. Perhaps you haven't noticed a difference in lap times with/without the STB but that doesn't invalidate the difference in the handling feel of the car that others have experienced. A much better handling car than our F-bodies, the Nissan 350Z track/competition model even has a REAR STB. I don't think that Nissan put it in just for looks, considering that it makes the rear interior space less useful. BTW, depends if you put a downwards load on the cup.

[Mr. Luos]

Since they work so well....someone can buy mine.
SLP piece.


Cage is the last thing that will EVER go in my car. It might be quick enough to need it (at sea level), but it won't get it. I don't race it enough to bother.

[Jeremiah]

Unlike other cars "Fox body Mustangs for example" the F bodys unitized construction is very structurally stable and a STB is nothing more than an appearance item. I have repaired fourth gen F-bodys that have had the unitized rails buckled and the front reinforcement ripped completely off the structure from side collisions and the towers were still within spec.

There is a structural rail called the upper long member that runs inside the top of the fender that ties the cowl plenum, the strut tower and the radiator suppt all together. This has the same affect as a STB only far better, Mustangs as well as many other cars dont have this extra bracing.

There are also a few threads on the subject with some profesional road racers like Sam Stranos that will tell you the same thing. Sam Stranos doesnt run a STB on his multiple SCCA national championship winning 01 Camaro.

You guys that say you noticed an improvement in response/handling by simply bolting one on your car are full of it. There good to lean on or if you like the look but a fourth gen doesnt need any structural bracing in this erea. I think a lot of you bolt one on your car and then go test it on some corners and... wow, my car handles pretty good therefore it must be the STB. In reality your car has allways handled that good, you just never payed any attention to it.

Companys are making them because they can be built for a few dollars and you guys pay $100+ for them, I even thought about turning out my own design.

SFC's are entirely different, there great for any car reguarless of modifications and unlike a STB will make a noticable seat of the pants improvement.

[Fastcar]

Unlike other cars "Fox body Mustangs for example" the F bodys unitized construction is very structurally stable and a STB is nothing more than an appearance item. I have repaired fourth gen F-bodys that have had the unitized rails buckled and the front reinforcement ripped completely off the structure from side collisions and the towers were still within spec.

There is a structural rail called the upper long member that runs inside the top of the fender that ties the cowl plenum, the strut tower and the radiator suppt all together. This has the same affect as a STB only far better, Mustangs as well as many other cars dont have this extra bracing.

There are also a few threads on the subject with some profesional road racers like Sam Stranos that will tell you the same thing. Sam Stranos doesnt run a STB on his multiple SCCA national championship winning 01 Camaro.

You guys that say you noticed an improvement in response/handling by simply bolting one on your car are full of it. There good to lean on or if you like the look but a fourth gen doesnt need any structural bracing in this erea. I think a lot of you bolt one on your car and then go test it on some corners and... wow, my car handles pretty good therefore it must be the STB. In reality your car has allways handled that good, you just never payed any attention to it.

Companys are making them because they can be built for a few dollars and you guys pay $100+ for them, I even thought about turning out my own design.

SFC's are entirely different, there great for any car reguarless of modifications and unlike a STB will make a noticable seat of the pants improvement.

No Junior, you're full of it. The towers can still be in spec because the car's not in motion. I noticed a big difference in the way my car handled after I installed an STB. The whole front end used to "shake" and "dance" whenever I hit a pothole or road irregularity: if I hit a pothole while turning the car would feel like it shifted slightly off track. After installing the STB my steering linearity improved and the front end stopped doing the pothole dance. If you don't feel the difference, save your money and don't put one in: we still live in a democracy. It might well be that YOU can't feel any difference in the way your car handles. You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?

[TOO Z MAXX]

WOW, check out that pole. 91 suckers so far. I cant remember what shop it was but they did some testing and took some measurements with and without a STB. They came to the conclusion they do nothing. From my own experience I came to the same conclusion. My car has roughly 300 autox days on it so I know how my car handles. I also run Hoosier A6 r-compound tires on some super grippy concrete, so the stress is there. If a car is going to flex it will happen under these extreme conditions. I took mine STB off and I couldnt tell a difference at all. Is that enought proof for you guys.

[bluefields88]

nope.

[Jeremiah]

No Junior, you're full of it. The towers can still be in spec because the car's not in motion. I noticed a big difference in the way my car handled after I installed an STB. The whole front end used to "shake" and "dance" whenever I hit a pothole or road irregularity: if I hit a pothole while turning the car would feel like it shifted slightly off track. After installing the STB my steering linearity improved and the front end stopped doing the pothole dance. If you don't feel the difference, save your money and don't put one in: we still live in a democracy. It might well be that YOU can't feel any difference in the way your car handles. You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?

Junior.. lol, Im probably old enough to be your father and have owned more F-bodys than most on this site including several more valuable than any home you will ever own. I have also worked on, driven, restored you name it on about every model of every year F-body built. I have cut appart and rebuilt countless fourth gens. I know these cars well beyond the exterior panels you wash/wax.

I know for a fact.... A STB will not do as you have said even under the most harsh driving conditions.

The fourth gens have there weak ereas, the strut towers or unitized cabin forward construction is not one of them by far.

Also, the force/impact it takes to buckle the rails from a side impact to the point everything forward of the towers has to be replaced is far more than any extreme driving conditions will replicate.

[Mr. Luos]

You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I have, and felt ZERO difference.