Is it really necessary to stall a a4??????

**Firebirdjones** · 08-04-2009, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by 02Sweet

Hmmm...makes sense. In my older cars I have always put a converter in right away. Just haven't gotten around to doing it for this one. Mainly b/c im afraid ill get one too small. I still have yet to make up my mind on where I want to go with the car over the winter so I have no clue what stall to get.

Ya I understand that dilema. Getting one too small, and then possibly changing cams down the road to something else really throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing.

Seems every converter company has a different feel to their converters and how they build them. Keep asking around. Most people around here will put Yank and Vigilante up near the top choices. And they seem to be good converters from what I've seen at the track.

The most important thing with any brand converter is to put together a combination that works well together. Hence the reason a good converter company will drill you with questions about your car.

**02Sweet** · 08-04-2009, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

For optimum performance you want the converter custom built to the engine specs you are running at the time.
A good converter company will go through an entire list about your car,,,,weight, gear, engine size, tranny type, camshaft, intake, dyno information if you have it etc....

So know your car well before calling about a converter.

That's the best way to do it.

Now you can buy a converter from a list out of a catalog,,,and alot of people get by with that. Usually doesn't provide best performance though. Just depends on what you are after.

Hmm...so it makes sense to wait till spring (for me) till i get everything in the car and call up a company and get one built.

Do you need to have anything special done to run nitrous?

**02Sweet** · 08-04-2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Ya I understand that dilema. Getting one too small, and then possibly changing cams down the road to something else really throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing.

Seems every converter company has a different feel to their converters and how they build them. Keep asking around. Most people around here will put Yank and Vigilante up near the top choices. And they seem to be good converters from what I've seen at the track.

yup I don't like spending money twice. That is why its hard for me to get one now just for a year when I know I will be upgrading the car soon.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-04-2009, 08:05 AM

Ya they build converters specifically for nitrous applications.

For starters they have balloon plates because of the immense load put on the converter with a nitrous hit,,,,and since nitrous hits hard with a large torque load,,,the converters are generally built tighter than one destined for a naturally aspirated setup.

If you are certain on your goals for the car and know exactly what you want,,,,then getting a converter now would work fine.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-04-2009, 08:11 AM

On a side note, since everyones idea of a loose converter is completely different, try to find some friends with 4th gens equipped with stall converters that will take you for a ride.
Your idea of loose might be another guys idea of tight.

Giving your car information to a converter company as to camshaft plans etc...will get you a nice converter even if you don't have the mods done to the car yet. Just be honest with your goals and you'll get a converter that works nicely. Might be a little loose feeling though on a stock engine.

I stuck a converter in my 4th gen before the cam install,,,and still have it that way currently.

**Bad Co.** · 08-06-2009, 06:00 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I just wasnt sure what to do first, cam or stall. Im thinking of going with the torquer 2 or maybe a ms3. Not sure. i definatly have the mods to support. Long tubes, ls6 intake, fully built trans with vette servo and transgo shift kit, 3.42's etc. The mods go for awhile. Its my first time to go this deep with a ls1 so i need all the advice i can get.

**allbaugh_04** · 08-06-2009, 06:36 PM

I hope you have a good transmission cooler. Bypass the stock one ASAP.

**02Sweet** · 08-07-2009, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by allbaugh_04

I hope you have a good transmission cooler. Bypass the stock one ASAP.

YES

**dpeach** · 08-07-2009, 08:46 AM

Why is it so bad to use the stock transmission cooler in line with an aftermarket cooler? I would think that it would help the cooling process of the transmission fluid. Just curious as to why its so much better just to bypass it.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-07-2009, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by dpeach

Why is it so bad to use the stock transmission cooler in line with an aftermarket cooler? I would think that it would help the cooling process of the transmission fluid. Just curious as to why its so much better just to bypass it.

It's not okay. Run the stock cooler and then install an aftermarket cooler to work in conjunction with the stocker.

Hook the after aftermarket cooler to the tranny return line,,,so the stock cooler catches the brunt of the hot fluid and then is cooled again with the aftermarket.

You will get much cooler and more consistent trans temps this way.

Not to mentioned the factory cooler in the radiator has the added benefit of electric cooling fans pulling air in stand still traffic conditions, this is a plus. Installing a cooler engine thermostat and programming the fans to come on sooner will also help the trans as well.

**02Sweet** · 08-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

It's not okay. Run the stock cooler and then install an aftermarket cooler to work in conjunction with the stocker.

Hook the after aftermarket cooler to the tranny return line,,,so the stock cooler catches the brunt of the hot fluid and then is cooled again with the aftermarket.

You will get much cooler and more consistent trans temps this way.

Not to mentioned the factory cooler in the radiator has the added benefit of electric cooling fans pulling air in stand still traffic conditions, this is a plus. Installing a cooler engine thermostat and programming the fans to come on sooner will also help the trans as well.

Yet another good post!!!

**c5z28** · 08-07-2009, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bad Co.

Thanks for the input guys. I just wasnt sure what to do first, cam or stall. Im thinking of going with the torquer 2 or maybe a ms3. Not sure. i definatly have the mods to support. Long tubes, ls6 intake, fully built trans with vette servo and transgo shift kit, 3.42's etc. The mods go for awhile. Its my first time to go this deep with a ls1 so i need all the advice i can get.

Have you been to the track yet? times? I know you haven't gotten the heads/cam yet.

**allbaugh_04** · 08-07-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by dpeach

Why is it so bad to use the stock transmission cooler in line with an aftermarket cooler? I would think that it would help the cooling process of the transmission fluid. Just curious as to why its so much better just to bypass it.

Well I can see firebird jones might disagree, I will have to disagree with him. Now granted I don't use a temperature gauge, but imo I think it's MUCH better to bypass it for two reasons. I think the radiator is probably gonna heat up the ATF more than it will cool it.

The most important reason to bypass it, is the stock cooler can go bad and mix coolant with your ATF, bye bye tranny and bye bye converter.

I actually just had this happen to me. I've warned people before, but no one listens. I don't care what you do, i'm just letting you know what could happen. So basically my tranny was killed and i had to get my new converter refreshed. It wasn't exactly cheap.

And I think you are much better off bypassing the stock cooler altogether. I'm not alone on this.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-07-2009, 12:17 PM

Sounds like a radiator that wasn't flushed on a routine yearly basis. Fact is anything can happen, but a rare case like this is no reason what so ever to bypass the factory tranny cooler.

So rare in fact that I've never come accross it in the 30 years I've been playing with this stuff on any of my dozen cars,,,,,or customer cars for that matter.

Using the factory cooler won't heat the already hot fluid. It will cool it to some extent,,,giving the aftermarket cooler a jump on it so it doesn't have to work so hard.
If you are still not sure,,,,you can easily switch the coolers around with some temporary hose,,,and use a gauge for yourself to see the differences. I think you are going to be surprised with what you find.

**allbaugh_04** · 08-07-2009, 04:33 PM

I will be getting a trans temp and we'll see how perfectly fine I am with just the external cooler. I'll take the peace of mind for now on, by not having it connected to the factory cooler.

EDIT: I've now read hundreds of posts about this...here is a good one.

"I use two coolers in-line. One is a B&M 24K cooler mounted dope style and the other is a Haynes that is mounted in front of the radiator. I bypassed the stock cooler. I have a temp gauge and I take my measurement from the cooler line coming out of the tranny....in essence, the hottest temps the tranny should see. Here in Arkansas, the summers get pretty ridiculous. The past couple of weeks the temp has soared into the 100's with ~90-95% humidity. In stop and go traffic, my temps were ~180* and cruising on the highway they stayed ~160*. If I romp on it a couple times in a row or do a long highway pull, it'd rise to 210* and then fall back immediately after letting off the gas. In the cooler months, I rarely see anything over 150*.

IMO, don't bother with the factory cooler. A big enough aftermarket cooler or two in my case will do the job nicely."

**kaine806** · 08-07-2009, 04:45 PM

I'm running 2 permacool transmission and the stock cooler in my Z and it stay's nice and cool... i needded it though it get up to 110 here in the summer.

**dpeach** · 08-07-2009, 08:01 PM

is the return line from the stock trans cooler on the bottom? I thought i saw an install pic that said it was on the top but i would think that the return would be on the bottom of the radiator due to cooler fluid falling and gravity. Am i an idiot or why would it be on the top?

**Firebirdjones** · 08-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by dpeach

is the return line from the stock trans cooler on the bottom? I thought i saw an install pic that said it was on the top but i would think that the return would be on the bottom of the radiator due to cooler fluid falling and gravity. Am i an idiot or why would it be on the top?

Yes it's on the bottom. It also has a section of the line from the factory with hose and squeeze clamps, makes it very easy to tap into.

**dpeach** · 08-07-2009, 08:18 PM

Its too dark too check right now but i thought i saw that the line going up to the top (trans to cooler line?) was the one with the hose and clamp on it. If so then wouldnt i be going into the aftermarket cooler first?

**Firebirdjones** · 08-07-2009, 08:25 PM

The upper line also has a hose,,,but it's connected to a steel line with a factory crimp style connection before it goes into the radiator.

You'll have to crawl under the car to see the lower line, it too comes out of the radiator with a steel line, but it's connected to hose with a squeeze clamp and is easily removed, runs right along side the frame rail next to the sway bar.